Trump’s DOJ is pursuing increasingly aggressive actions against medical providers in order to obtain the names, addresses, and social security numbers of trans kids. Why does it want this information?
The Department of Justice issued at least 20 subpoenas to healthcare providers serving transgender youth. This is a move that should be understood as what it is: the construction of a government list. History offers no reassuring precedents here. From Reconstruction to the Red Scare, registries and surveillance systems have been deployed to isolate targeted minorities, strip them of legal standing, and prepare the ground for what comes next. The threat is not only the intent of those who build the list. It is the uses to which every future administration may put it.
They only want the list of patients so they can substantiate the charges against the providers. These hospitals and providers are under federal investigation and are about to be indicted.
Your stated purpose is noted. I would reiterate, however, that the threat is not reducible to the intent of those who created the list. This administration and every future administration that gains access to it poses an equal danger. History compels that reading.
I’m not convinced of that. I think that’s a jump that plays into unfounded fear. You really think they’re going to make a list of trans people to hurt them? I don’t believe that’s part of the goal now or will be in the future.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. I'll argue that lists of trans people inherently hurt trans people—being tracked by the government is a terrible thing, and it is essentially a ticking time bomb for any bad anti-trans policies. So you can better understand my point, I want you ask yourself the following question: in January, if you had found out that the state of Kansas had been internally flagging gender changes in its systems, how would you have characterized that? Would you have said that "they only want to internally flag licenses so they can keep track of who changed their gender?" Or would you have called it a list?
In my experience as a journalist and as a researcher, I have learned one thing: transphobes who have the ability to do something quietly will almost always do it quietly. Through my research, I've uncovered many instances of primarily GOP-controlled states implementing transphobic policy changes without announcement, and these changes are almost always limited to states where there is no statute governing a particular policy area (usually driver's licenses and Medicaid). As a result, they're able to change their policies without even making an announcement. To find them, I have to periodically check just to make sure they haven't changed them, and for this, I obviously have a list of prime suspects.
But just like I don't trust states without statutes governing their gender-related policies, I don't trust the federal government with trans people's medical data. Especially not when it's tied to their SSNs. Already, we've seen extremely aggressive enforcement of the Trump passport policy through SSN and past passport data, and that clearly harms our community.
I'll level will you: I don't know if they're going to use trans kids' medical data to hurt them, but I do know that they're trying to make a list. If they never use it then that's great. But the existence of the list is risky enough.
I work with attorneys and have been reporting on criminal justice corruption and federal cases for 25 years. It’s clear as day that this subpoena is laying the groundwork for lawsuits against the providers. There’s no denying this. These providers and hospitals are under federal investigation and are about to get indicted most likely on charges of fraud. From a legal perspective, this path is pretty obvious.
in January, if you had found out that the state of Kansas had been internally flagging gender changes in its systems, how would you have characterized that?
Since I know how the DMV works, I would say it’s a misunderstanding of what actually happened. The mistaken belief is that Kansas was tracking trans people in their system every time they changed their gender marker. That isn’t true.
The state DMV wasn’t flagging gender changes. All changes to all personal information is documented. DMVs keep records of all changes to personal information, including name changes by women who get married and change their last name. All DMVs keep records of changes to personal information. That information is in the system, changes noted, whether it’s a last name change, a voluntary correction, or a court-ordered change.
What happened is someone decided to use that existing information in a way that hurt trans people. The difference matters because the perception that Kansas was actively compiling a list of trans people via the DMV is false.
I don’t disagree with you about how people change laws quietly. And it’s possible that some bad actor might do something with these lists later on. But right now, this patient data is being collected to support charges against providers.
When patient records are subpoenaed for a federal investigation against providers it’s to substantiate the charges against the providers. We’ll see it all unfold soon. Grand jury investigations are executed in secret so we’ll hear about it after they get the patient data and issue the indictments.
People need to recognize the signs of impending federal indictments because they’ll be making the rounds across all states in due time. If everyone is only focused on the idea that the government is making “lists” for future harm then these indictments are going to sideswipe everyone.
I wonder if cis people will ever get their heads out of their asses and realize that when we say “genocide” we are NOT being hyperbolic. And if they come for one they will come for all. What is their obsession with trans people!?!
I see where this is going. This is a setup for a series of SLAPP lawsuits against practitioners.
They’re not after the patient data for the sake of the patient data, they only need that information to substantiate the charges against the providers to secure indictments. At this point, the hospitals have likely already been under federal investigation for some time and they’re going to indict the healthcare practitioners. Once they secure the indictments (the bar is lower than probable cause, they’ll get the indictments) they’ll drag the practitioners to federal court and force them to spend a fortune in legal fees.
At that point it won’t matter if the providers violated any laws or not because even if they’re innocent under the law, they’ll have to pay for a federal defense attorney, which costs far more than a general defense attorney. Going to trial will be too expensive so they’ll likely settle. The settlement will likely include a provision that they are not allowed to provide care for minors.
They’re going to put these providers in a position where they’ll need to spend all their money fighting the charges or settle and keep their career. The intention is to send a message to other providers to stop providing care to trans youth or face federal charges.
They’ll only stand a chance if there’s an attorney who will work pro bono for these doctors.
Trump tried to ban youth care with executive orders and funding cuts and now hospitals aren’t complying, so they’re going to drag them all in front of a grand jury probably by the end of the year. They probably already know the names of the providers and just need the patient data connecting the provider to the care provided to secure the indictments.
The Department of Justice issued at least 20 subpoenas to healthcare providers serving transgender youth. This is a move that should be understood as what it is: the construction of a government list. History offers no reassuring precedents here. From Reconstruction to the Red Scare, registries and surveillance systems have been deployed to isolate targeted minorities, strip them of legal standing, and prepare the ground for what comes next. The threat is not only the intent of those who build the list. It is the uses to which every future administration may put it.
They only want the list of patients so they can substantiate the charges against the providers. These hospitals and providers are under federal investigation and are about to be indicted.
Your stated purpose is noted. I would reiterate, however, that the threat is not reducible to the intent of those who created the list. This administration and every future administration that gains access to it poses an equal danger. History compels that reading.
I’m not convinced of that. I think that’s a jump that plays into unfounded fear. You really think they’re going to make a list of trans people to hurt them? I don’t believe that’s part of the goal now or will be in the future.
I'm going to respectfully disagree with you here. I'll argue that lists of trans people inherently hurt trans people—being tracked by the government is a terrible thing, and it is essentially a ticking time bomb for any bad anti-trans policies. So you can better understand my point, I want you ask yourself the following question: in January, if you had found out that the state of Kansas had been internally flagging gender changes in its systems, how would you have characterized that? Would you have said that "they only want to internally flag licenses so they can keep track of who changed their gender?" Or would you have called it a list?
In my experience as a journalist and as a researcher, I have learned one thing: transphobes who have the ability to do something quietly will almost always do it quietly. Through my research, I've uncovered many instances of primarily GOP-controlled states implementing transphobic policy changes without announcement, and these changes are almost always limited to states where there is no statute governing a particular policy area (usually driver's licenses and Medicaid). As a result, they're able to change their policies without even making an announcement. To find them, I have to periodically check just to make sure they haven't changed them, and for this, I obviously have a list of prime suspects.
But just like I don't trust states without statutes governing their gender-related policies, I don't trust the federal government with trans people's medical data. Especially not when it's tied to their SSNs. Already, we've seen extremely aggressive enforcement of the Trump passport policy through SSN and past passport data, and that clearly harms our community.
I'll level will you: I don't know if they're going to use trans kids' medical data to hurt them, but I do know that they're trying to make a list. If they never use it then that's great. But the existence of the list is risky enough.
I work with attorneys and have been reporting on criminal justice corruption and federal cases for 25 years. It’s clear as day that this subpoena is laying the groundwork for lawsuits against the providers. There’s no denying this. These providers and hospitals are under federal investigation and are about to get indicted most likely on charges of fraud. From a legal perspective, this path is pretty obvious.
in January, if you had found out that the state of Kansas had been internally flagging gender changes in its systems, how would you have characterized that?
Since I know how the DMV works, I would say it’s a misunderstanding of what actually happened. The mistaken belief is that Kansas was tracking trans people in their system every time they changed their gender marker. That isn’t true.
The state DMV wasn’t flagging gender changes. All changes to all personal information is documented. DMVs keep records of all changes to personal information, including name changes by women who get married and change their last name. All DMVs keep records of changes to personal information. That information is in the system, changes noted, whether it’s a last name change, a voluntary correction, or a court-ordered change.
What happened is someone decided to use that existing information in a way that hurt trans people. The difference matters because the perception that Kansas was actively compiling a list of trans people via the DMV is false.
I don’t disagree with you about how people change laws quietly. And it’s possible that some bad actor might do something with these lists later on. But right now, this patient data is being collected to support charges against providers.
When patient records are subpoenaed for a federal investigation against providers it’s to substantiate the charges against the providers. We’ll see it all unfold soon. Grand jury investigations are executed in secret so we’ll hear about it after they get the patient data and issue the indictments.
People need to recognize the signs of impending federal indictments because they’ll be making the rounds across all states in due time. If everyone is only focused on the idea that the government is making “lists” for future harm then these indictments are going to sideswipe everyone.
It’s not for a list. They don’t care about patient data. It’s worse than a list. See my comment in this thread.
I wonder if cis people will ever get their heads out of their asses and realize that when we say “genocide” we are NOT being hyperbolic. And if they come for one they will come for all. What is their obsession with trans people!?!
If this passes they will come after trans adults next.
I see where this is going. This is a setup for a series of SLAPP lawsuits against practitioners.
They’re not after the patient data for the sake of the patient data, they only need that information to substantiate the charges against the providers to secure indictments. At this point, the hospitals have likely already been under federal investigation for some time and they’re going to indict the healthcare practitioners. Once they secure the indictments (the bar is lower than probable cause, they’ll get the indictments) they’ll drag the practitioners to federal court and force them to spend a fortune in legal fees.
At that point it won’t matter if the providers violated any laws or not because even if they’re innocent under the law, they’ll have to pay for a federal defense attorney, which costs far more than a general defense attorney. Going to trial will be too expensive so they’ll likely settle. The settlement will likely include a provision that they are not allowed to provide care for minors.
They’re going to put these providers in a position where they’ll need to spend all their money fighting the charges or settle and keep their career. The intention is to send a message to other providers to stop providing care to trans youth or face federal charges.
They’ll only stand a chance if there’s an attorney who will work pro bono for these doctors.
Trump tried to ban youth care with executive orders and funding cuts and now hospitals aren’t complying, so they’re going to drag them all in front of a grand jury probably by the end of the year. They probably already know the names of the providers and just need the patient data connecting the provider to the care provided to secure the indictments.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say they want those kids' lives to be as miserable as possible.
Is it time for Kindertransport?